What an archaic notion! Or is it?
This term is used in more than one of Austen's novels, and her readers would have understood what was meant.
What do you think this concept of an Accomplished Woman was in Austen's time?
Is this concept evident today? If it is, what attributes would the accomplished woman of 2010 possess? Would you use the term?
What accomplishments in Austen's time would be considered redundant, or unnecessary, today? Are any still worthwhile, or valued?
Over to you. JC
Hello Everyone :)
ReplyDeleteHaving fun over this long deserved break of ours! I've also been watching Little Dorrit on Sunday nights ABC, which is fascinating. I can't wait until next weeks installment!
Just on an accomplished woman, the traits that Mr Darcy consider a well-bred woman to need are not valued as much in today's society, if only because we don't find the time to learn it all! We consider an education one of the most worth while things now, instead of pleasing men in every way we could! Good God, imagine living back then!
Hope you all have great fun resting!
Sarah
Thanks Sarah - what accomplishments do you think you would find hard to achieve due to lack of time? Can you say specifically what accomplishments would have been to "please men" , as you say?
ReplyDeleteI too am LOVING Little Dorrit. I was so excited each time a preview was shown, over the past month. The BBC do period drama so well, with such respect and accuracy. Aren't the characterisations perfectly realised? I am enjoying the touching relationship Amy has with her father - she is so perceptive when others are not. And, as always with Dickens, we will find out how each of these characters are intertwined. He was the original illustrator of "6 degrees of separation", long before that phrase came into common use!
Looking forward to hearing from everyone else, too
haha. it has worked. :)
ReplyDeletethanks for the tip JC.
An "accomplished" woman, in the 19th century, would have a full understanding of music, embroidery, literature, social structure, etc... they were to be feminine and 'genteel' and basically without any fault. To fit into the little box society provided for them they would be expected to deny the childishness that comes with growing up and become a lady from the age of 14 or 15. Taking into consideration their life expectancy it seems to make a little more sense. However, trying to put myself in the shoes of someone like Elizabeth Bennet, i found it quite difficult. All of these things would contribute to them getting a husband as soon as possible (whether that be in their late teens or their early twenties). WOW!
Now, an "accomplished" women is somewhat modified. They have one (or perhaps even two) university degrees, they have two or more children, they work full-time, plus having an understanding of literature, appreciation for music of past eras, and being a 'masterchef'.
Though, i am not really sure if there is so much pressure on women to be "accomplished"; as women's rights have developed (especially in a country like Australia), women are allowed to express themselves in the way which they choose, it doesn't really matter if their degree is from university or from an apprenticeship, they can be Prime Minister, or a Motor Mechanic. They can choose to be married at the age of 19, with two kids by the age of 23 and a stay at home mum, or, a professional, living with a partner and no children.
The Point...
Gone are the days in which women are asked to list their accomplishments for society to put them in a rank of the social hierarchy. The little box provided in the 1800's has now been crushed, women can be who they choose. But have some women lost the essence of what it is to be "an accomplished women"? and is this a good thing?
I am not so sure. What I am sure about is that if I live in the cultural context of a Women's Rights society, with a female Queen and Prime Minister, than i can be certain that i can grow up to be the woman that i want to be without the restraints of being apart of the once "inferior sex". I can be accomplished in ways that i choose, not in the stock standard that 1800's society chooses for me.
And all in all, i think that's kind of cool.
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ReplyDeleteI coudn't agree with Elisha more that there is little emphasis placed on accomplishments now, and thanks for it! It feels better, for me anyway, knowing that I don't have any preconceived notions placed upon my gender, and I can do what I want to with my life without shaming my family or friends. However, about the question of whether it is a good thing? That I don't get.
ReplyDeleteOf course it is a good thing to be libertated of certain "desired traits" that we women were supposed to have - and we weren't the only ones stereotyped. Men as fathers used to be so disconnected from their children, and the lower classes had to act with respect for the higher classes in society. We have grown out of this, and no matter what a person's social or historical cotext is, they can become what they want to in life. It is sad that to achieve this, we had to give up the courtesies that came with being a woman - being first through the door, being bowed at etc. Some things did change for the worse, but the pros far outweigh the cons.
Sarah
"no one can be really esteemed accomplished who does not greatly surpass what is usually met with. A woman must have a thorough knowledge of music, singing, drawing, dancing, and the modern languages, to deserve the word; and besides all this, she must possess a certain something in her air and manner of walking, the tone of her voice, her address and expressions, or the word will be but half deserved."
ReplyDelete"All this she must possess....and to all this she must yet add something more substantial, in the improvement of her mind by extensive reading."
This is what an accomplished woman is, according to Mr. Darcy.
Today, in 2010 they may all still be revelant as the wether a woman is accompished. it depends on a person, their dreams and their goals in life. if a person truley feels acomplished, then surely they feel as they have achieved in life what they have wanted themselves to be. Accomplishment to a person is simply have positive sense concept of themselves as to what they have acheved so far.
So if you a achieve what you set out to do. If its pass year 12? have 3 children? Get a score in the high 90's for your enter score? become a small lolly sop store owner? own all the dr who or harry potter collectables ever made? if you suceed in these things, then you have accomplished something. and can be considered accomplished.
however if others consider you accomplished that is entirely different and another story.
By Rosie and Lyndel via phone and lyndels computer due to blog sign in problems for Rosie.
Yes, I think another point to consider in all this (very interesting) discussion, is that if a woman was "accomplished", she could hold her own in social settings, which would then lead to her having greater chance of securing a partner. These days, those "accomplishments" you have noted, such as success in your schooling, or career, or being proud of what you have done, or having ambition, acts in the same way. These are still the qualities or characeristics needed for you to "go places". To be a successful businesswoman, for example, you would need to know economics, be able to conduct yourselves with peopel from all walks of life. In essence, to navigate the social structure in which you move.
ReplyDeleteI think Darcy's point about having that "certain something esle" is interesting - an indefinable quality. Do successful men possess this also? Is it evident in different ways to women? For example, how do we view a man who is powerful, or wealthy, or a leader, or trusted ( Obama, Bob Brown, Richard Pratt, Gary Ablett), and would the qualities that define power and success in a man be the same as for a woman? It is interesting to currently view ( sorry, that's a split infinitive) the reaction to Gillard. Is she married? Why not? Is she well spoken enough? What about Michele Obama? What about Caroline Wilson, the Sport's journalist? Are they under greater scrutiny because of their gender? Hmmm... JC
In Austen’s time, an accomplished woman must have a thorough knowledge of music, singing, drawing, dancing, the modern languages, embroidery, literature and social structure. These ‘characteristics’ that were seen as a necessity for a young women to posses in the 19th century, seem to me unfair now, yet essential to the restricted circumstances women faced then.
ReplyDeleteWomen in this time period did not have the rights that we take for granted today, such as, freedom of speech, religion, voting ect. They lived in a time when it was a man’s world. And therefore i am to understand why these attributes were considered needed and valued.
However, in 2010 women in Australia are no longer repressed and restrained from accomplishing whatever they desire. We have amazing educational and work opportunities, we can not only vote, but lead the country!, meet who we want (without our father needing to first) and date who we want, we can wear what we want and be whoever we aspire to be... the list is endless.
Every person is unique, and therefore every attribute that leads to them being an accomplished woman in their eyes, is different- depending on what the individual wants to achieve in life. Our concept in 2010, of accomplishments, has vastly changed: some people will want a high paying job, some wont. Some will want to be a stay-home mum, some wont. Some will want to live with a man- and not marry him.
Of course there is still a barrier between men and women in society- and i think there will always be. For instance why do the media judge Gillard on her clothes, or hair colour? No one judged K. Rudd on the suit he was wearing?
Anyway, women have come a long way in society and we are lucky to have the liberty to be whoever we want.
Zoe, i completely agree...
ReplyDeletei thought it was ridiculous the fuss the media was making about Julia Gillard's clothes. Since when did a Prime Minister's political capability depend upon their dress sense? Surely Australia is not that superficial?
Julia has a job to do, and not once have i seen dressing well on the PM's job description.
hi everyone, i am finally able to post a comment on this blog wich is very exciting!!!
ReplyDeleteIn response to ms corless' post, in Jane Austen's time an accomplished woman was seen as someone who had recieved an education, could play an instrument, could sing, could paint or draw, write and read, and the list most likely goes on. Now when we look at this list now, we as young women don't see it as too outrageous, even though majority of us can't do all these things we can at least do some. For instance we've all had education and we all hopefully can read! However there are only a few who can play an instrument, or sing. Realistically we can't do everything, but we can do some. Looking at this list in Austen's time however, it just seems unbelieveable! of course majority of women didn't recieve an education or if they did it was know where as great as what a man recieved. The fact that people in those times (not pointing the finger at Lady Catherine!) thought that a single women could learn to be so accomplished and still had the time to breath is ridiculous!!!
what i wonder is, did people look down upon women who couldn't perform all these skills?
In today's society, this idea of an accomplished women has altered as it should. People no longer judge a person by their 'talents' or if they finished high school or went to university. yes, by not continuing their eductaion, women can be disadvataged in career options, but i would like to reinforce that we now have choices, options. We no longer have to impress people in order to be noticed or get a husband.
My idea of an accomplished woman is a woman who feels accomplished within herself. A woman who at the end of her life has achieved all she has wanted, and/or looks back and appreciates what she now has. I believe all women are accomplished, and that includes housewives, teachers, hairdresses and even prime ministers.
All women deserve to be praised for their individual accomplishments.
Hey everyone,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what everyone seems to be saying. That we are very fortunate today to have the oppurtunity to vote, choose our own religion, our husband or to even have one. We live in a society that values women not on their ability to play three different instruments and how demure and attentive they are. BUT I wish young women today would appreciate how liberated they are and wouldn't lower themselves to the same level as prostitutes by getting so smashed that they pass out on a street when leaving a nigtclub at 2am in the morning. I think perhaps if society began to value poise and etiquette again we may not have so many half dressed young women stumbling out of taxis at 4am with limited memory of what happened. I am very proud to live as a teenager with the ability to speak her mind. I just wish other women could appreciate how far we have come. Georgia.
I agree with what everyone has been saying, some really good points have been made. I especially agree with Georgias comment from before, about how maybe it would be a good thing if society began to value some of the smaller things like reputation and dignity again. Not at all saying that society should take backwards steps and end up living under the same sets of morals and rules as those of Austens time, however if people valued their reputations and dignity more there wouldn't be half as many problems on the streets.
ReplyDeleteI think it is definitely a good thing that in todays society a womans 'worth' is not valued on her ability to get a husband, embroider and ballroom dance. There are many women throughout history who have proved that we are a strong, proud gender who should have equal opportunities to men -- and worked hard to get our society in to the frame of mind about this topic that it is in today.
However, there are some times when it seems that the accomplishment of women today are held in high esteem, but at the same time the men are usually going through the same thing. Take for instance an awkward family reunion, a woman who had not 'accomplished much' in her life (no uni degree etc.) might get the disapproving eye from a great aunt, but that is pretty much the extent of it. We are very lucky today to have the opportunities and freedom that we do, and what is seen to be a womans 'accomplishments' has definitely changed for the better.
i agree with ash. in today society, women don't need to be accomplished to get far in life. chances are they will still fall in love and get married, have children and some women go from nothing to having everything (one woman who comes to mind is Oprah Winfrey!!!)
ReplyDeletetoday we don't have the same strict guide lines they show in pride and prejudice. like ash mentioned the only person who might look down at you is a family member, and that would only be because of not having a uni degree etc.
I totally agree with Georgia's comment. Personally as a young woman of the 21st century it is really disappointing to see feloow women degrade themselves like that. I mean if you think about it, Jane Austen was writing 200 years ago, if that. And the values and etiquette women were to uphold back then have changed so much. Probably even in the 1950s these values were still evident.Even our grandparents who grew up in these times would disapprove of what women do in clubs these days. again it all comes down to cultural context and what makes you up, and personally coming from a strong european background these values of how to present yourself, manners and etiquette are present in my life. If i ever behaved like women do today i know for a fact my parents and grandparents would be very disappointed.
ReplyDeletethe main point is and it is a sad one, is that many people don't hold these values close them anymore, and that is why society is facing an increasing amount of problems with the younger generations because they're not taught from a young age.
I really appreciate that in today's society women have more freedom, but it would be better if we still held the same values of presentation and self respect they did back then.
An interesting thing to consider, in response to the comment about how anyone could find the time to achieve so much, is that many of the women were BORED! No school or university to attend, many restrictions placed upon the activities they could pursue, long days... Think about how you would spend your time for the entire day without phones, internet, television, sport, shopping. You'll notice that many long walks are taken by Elizabeth, plenty of time for the middle class women to fill. JC
ReplyDeletethis is a great page to read through. reading everybody's comments was FANTASTICO. i love the subtle differing views of the lit class. amuses me greatly. also i think you guys made me grow a few brain cells with all the opinions of accomplishment, i feel as though my brain is smart-ish now. a breakthrough, an ACCOMPLISHMENT. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO I'M THEREFORE NOW ACCOMPLISHED I HAVE DECIDED. MY LIFE IS COMPLETE :) :) woooooooohooooooooo have a brillllllllliant weekend lit buds (by the way: when shall this handshake be created? -.- )
ReplyDeletegood luck with close analysis. zoooooooom
cheerio
The dictionary tells me that accomplished today stands at something;
ReplyDelete1)completed; done; effective
2)highly skilled; expert
Or 3) having all the social graces, manners, and other attainments of polite society.
Which I thought sounded more true to the times of Austen then the many characteristics being discussed on this blog by products of the late 20th century.
I agree with the many qualities that have been mentioned referring both to ‘Austen’s’ accomplished being; a good wife and mother insuring the marriage of your daughters was accepted by society and enough to see her through life in terms or monetary value and ‘our’ accomplished being a personal judgement based on appropriate morals or values.
It was fascinating to see this discussion about the lives of a society 200 years ago turn into one of the highly critical world we live in today. You are right, equality has come a long way but it is not nearly what we aspire it to be. Comments such as those surrounding the attire of our first female PM in contrast to those about K. Rudd’s suit are something many people in the media would sooner sweep under the rug than review the many differences that come to light when looking for faults in females verse males.
In the case of today’s teenagers , my fellow classmates have said all there to be said , I’m just grateful we ( at clonard , and especially in this literature class) have the opportunity to be educated on what it means to rise above what others say is the norm and have your own set of values.
Good on you girls ,
Good chat!
JR